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	<title>Comments for Glass Box Voting</title>
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	<link>http://www.glassboxvoting.com/wordpress</link>
	<description>Electronic Voting, Social Entrepreneurship, Security</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 23:47:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Comment on Open Source does not equal secure, chapter 437 by Daniel Craig</title>
		<link>http://www.glassboxvoting.com/wordpress/2008/08/22/open-source-does-not-equal-secure-chapter-437/#comment-842</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 09:00:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.glassboxvoting.com/wordpress/?p=61#comment-842</guid>
		<description>Hello, I was looking around for a while searching for system security and I happened upon this site and your post regarding Open Source does not equal secure, chapter 437, I will definitely this to my system security bookmarks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello, I was looking around for a while searching for system security and I happened upon this site and your post regarding Open Source does not equal secure, chapter 437, I will definitely this to my system security bookmarks!</p>
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		<title>Comment on In other news, Diebold admits their machines lose votes by Adam</title>
		<link>http://www.glassboxvoting.com/wordpress/2008/08/22/in-other-news-diebold-admits-their-machines-lose-votes/#comment-839</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 18:11:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.glassboxvoting.com/wordpress/?p=63#comment-839</guid>
		<description>This kind of stuff is exactly why we need a third party so badly. I like what this website has to say about it. Its a great idea of how to get a third (or fourth) party without impacting this election at all: 
http://www.thirdpartyvote.com 
Definitly worth a minute to check out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This kind of stuff is exactly why we need a third party so badly. I like what this website has to say about it. Its a great idea of how to get a third (or fourth) party without impacting this election at all:<br />
<a href="http://www.thirdpartyvote.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.thirdpartyvote.com</a><br />
Definitly worth a minute to check out.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Debian/Ubuntu key generation flaw by Scott Shorter</title>
		<link>http://www.glassboxvoting.com/wordpress/2008/05/19/the-debianubuntu-key-generation-flaw/#comment-527</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Shorter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2008 03:20:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.glassboxvoting.com/wordpress/?p=59#comment-527</guid>
		<description>I should have mentioned this earlier, but patching the systems turned out to be irritatingly NON-trivial.  For some reason xubuntu patched itself, but for vanilla ubuntu I had to go hunting all over the multiverse and ultimately had to download a .deb file I found with the assistance of the great Gizoogle and a savvy colleague who had already solved the problem on Debian.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should have mentioned this earlier, but patching the systems turned out to be irritatingly NON-trivial.  For some reason xubuntu patched itself, but for vanilla ubuntu I had to go hunting all over the multiverse and ultimately had to download a .deb file I found with the assistance of the great Gizoogle and a savvy colleague who had already solved the problem on Debian.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The difference between an ATM and a voting machine by Glass Box Voting &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Diebold admits ATMs more robust than voting machines</title>
		<link>http://www.glassboxvoting.com/wordpress/2008/03/18/the-difference-between-an-atm-and-a-voting-machine/#comment-228</link>
		<dc:creator>Glass Box Voting &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Diebold admits ATMs more robust than voting machines</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Apr 2008 11:41:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.glassboxvoting.com/wordpress/2008/03/18/the-difference-between-an-atm-and-a-voting-machine/#comment-228</guid>
		<description>[...] Hat tip to infodiva and slashdot.  Also want to remind new readers of an old post: The difference between an ATM and a voting machine. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Hat tip to infodiva and slashdot.  Also want to remind new readers of an old post: The difference between an ATM and a voting machine. [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Sequoia threatens security researcher by Glass Box Voting &#187; Blog Archive &#187; New Jersey voting machines subpoenaed for testing</title>
		<link>http://www.glassboxvoting.com/wordpress/2008/03/18/sequoia-threatens-security-researcher/#comment-99</link>
		<dc:creator>Glass Box Voting &#187; Blog Archive &#187; New Jersey voting machines subpoenaed for testing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 12:37:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.glassboxvoting.com/wordpress/2008/03/18/sequoia-threatens-security-researcher/#comment-99</guid>
		<description>[...] trade secrets will be violated, but they probably object in particular to the choice of Felten (see here for a little bit of the history between Sequoia and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] trade secrets will be violated, but they probably object in particular to the choice of Felten (see here for a little bit of the history between Sequoia and [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Security Mindset by AllAboutVoting</title>
		<link>http://www.glassboxvoting.com/wordpress/2008/03/27/the-security-mindset/#comment-89</link>
		<dc:creator>AllAboutVoting</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Mar 2008 17:29:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.glassboxvoting.com/wordpress/2008/03/27/the-security-mindset/#comment-89</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href="http://benlog.com/articles/2008/03/19/trusting-the-machine/" rel="nofollow"&gt;Ben Adida writes&lt;/a&gt; about the same subject in the context of voting machines - from the point of view of users/buyers of systems rather then designers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://benlog.com/articles/2008/03/19/trusting-the-machine/" rel="nofollow">Ben Adida writes</a> about the same subject in the context of voting machines - from the point of view of users/buyers of systems rather then designers.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Minneapolis wants Instant Runoff Voting, but sees no products by AllAboutVoting</title>
		<link>http://www.glassboxvoting.com/wordpress/2008/03/12/36/#comment-86</link>
		<dc:creator>AllAboutVoting</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Mar 2008 04:54:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.glassboxvoting.com/wordpress/2008/03/12/36/#comment-86</guid>
		<description>More on &lt;a href="http://www.rangevoting.org/Spoiled.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;spoilage rates under different single winner election methods&lt;/a&gt;.  Approval voting is the most forgiving but of course there is the risk that tampering can occur that results in a valid vote that does not reflect the voter's selection rather than a spoiled ballot.

Of course that is best addressed by having an election system with good integrity properties which presumably you will get around to proposing here.  :)

----

The current wikipedia definition of IRV is actually a bit misleading in that it abuses the term &lt;i&gt;majority&lt;/i&gt;.

&#62;"This process is repeated until one candidate has a majority
&#62;among votes for candidates not eliminated."
It should read 'a majority of remaining first choice preferences'.

1. Other preferences that voters expressed are ignored.  So IRV will tend to not elect compromise candidates who have broad support.

2. Individual ballots can be exhausted.  This is especially likely when truncated IRV is used rather than full IRV.  Exhausted ballots are no longer counted when deciding who has a 'majority'.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>More on <a href="http://www.rangevoting.org/Spoiled.html" rel="nofollow">spoilage rates under different single winner election methods</a>.  Approval voting is the most forgiving but of course there is the risk that tampering can occur that results in a valid vote that does not reflect the voter&#8217;s selection rather than a spoiled ballot.</p>
<p>Of course that is best addressed by having an election system with good integrity properties which presumably you will get around to proposing here.  <img src='http://www.glassboxvoting.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>&#8212;-</p>
<p>The current wikipedia definition of IRV is actually a bit misleading in that it abuses the term <i>majority</i>.</p>
<p>&gt;&#8221;This process is repeated until one candidate has a majority<br />
&gt;among votes for candidates not eliminated.&#8221;<br />
It should read &#8216;a majority of remaining first choice preferences&#8217;.</p>
<p>1. Other preferences that voters expressed are ignored.  So IRV will tend to not elect compromise candidates who have broad support.</p>
<p>2. Individual ballots can be exhausted.  This is especially likely when truncated IRV is used rather than full IRV.  Exhausted ballots are no longer counted when deciding who has a &#8216;majority&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Minneapolis wants Instant Runoff Voting, but sees no products by AllAboutVoting</title>
		<link>http://www.glassboxvoting.com/wordpress/2008/03/12/36/#comment-85</link>
		<dc:creator>AllAboutVoting</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Mar 2008 04:33:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.glassboxvoting.com/wordpress/2008/03/12/36/#comment-85</guid>
		<description>I think that IRV produces lousy results even when there are no election administration issues.  The procedure that Maryland is considering is actually truncated IRV which is even worse.

But since you interest is in election tabulation and integrity, I'll focus on the administration issues.

What is IRV?

From wikipedia:

Instant-runoff voting (IRV) is a voting system used for single-winner elections in which voters rank candidates in order of preference using one ballot. No further voting rounds are required. If no candidate receives a majority of first choices, the candidate with the fewest number of votes is eliminated, and the votes cast for that candidate are redistributed to the remaining candidates according to the voters' indicated preference. This process is repeated until one candidate has a majority among votes for candidates not eliminated.

---

The nature of IRV results in complicated administration.  This is because of two factors:

1. It collects a lot of information from each voter.  The system described above collects 3 ranks of data.  Votes that mark the same candidate in multiple ranks or have multiple votes at the same rank or that skip a rank might all be considered spoiled depending on the election rules.  IRV is often paired with election machines since machines can reject spoiled ballots quickly enough for the voter to correct their vote.   This same issue also applies to other ranked election methods such as Condorcet methods but is not as bad when the election method allows ties at a particular rank.

2. Results are not summable in precincts.  This is fairly unique as almost all single winner election methods.  To figure out who the winner is you either need to gather all the ballots in a central location or to have a multi pass system where precincts report initial counts to a central location and then once all the precincts have reported this the central location directs all the precincts to eliminate a candidate and adjust their counts.  Rinse and repeat. 

http://minguo.info/election_methods/evaluation/sc_summability_criterion</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that IRV produces lousy results even when there are no election administration issues.  The procedure that Maryland is considering is actually truncated IRV which is even worse.</p>
<p>But since you interest is in election tabulation and integrity, I&#8217;ll focus on the administration issues.</p>
<p>What is IRV?</p>
<p>From wikipedia:</p>
<p>Instant-runoff voting (IRV) is a voting system used for single-winner elections in which voters rank candidates in order of preference using one ballot. No further voting rounds are required. If no candidate receives a majority of first choices, the candidate with the fewest number of votes is eliminated, and the votes cast for that candidate are redistributed to the remaining candidates according to the voters&#8217; indicated preference. This process is repeated until one candidate has a majority among votes for candidates not eliminated.</p>
<p>&#8212;</p>
<p>The nature of IRV results in complicated administration.  This is because of two factors:</p>
<p>1. It collects a lot of information from each voter.  The system described above collects 3 ranks of data.  Votes that mark the same candidate in multiple ranks or have multiple votes at the same rank or that skip a rank might all be considered spoiled depending on the election rules.  IRV is often paired with election machines since machines can reject spoiled ballots quickly enough for the voter to correct their vote.   This same issue also applies to other ranked election methods such as Condorcet methods but is not as bad when the election method allows ties at a particular rank.</p>
<p>2. Results are not summable in precincts.  This is fairly unique as almost all single winner election methods.  To figure out who the winner is you either need to gather all the ballots in a central location or to have a multi pass system where precincts report initial counts to a central location and then once all the precincts have reported this the central location directs all the precincts to eliminate a candidate and adjust their counts.  Rinse and repeat. </p>
<p><a href="http://minguo.info/election_methods/evaluation/sc_summability_criterion" rel="nofollow">http://minguo.info/election_methods/evaluation/sc_summability_criterion</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Minneapolis wants Instant Runoff Voting, but sees no products by AllAboutVoting</title>
		<link>http://www.glassboxvoting.com/wordpress/2008/03/12/36/#comment-84</link>
		<dc:creator>AllAboutVoting</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Mar 2008 04:16:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.glassboxvoting.com/wordpress/2008/03/12/36/#comment-84</guid>
		<description>Instant runoff voting (IRV) is addressing the right problem.  But it is a very wrong solution.

&lt;a href="http://minguo.info/election_methods/irv" rel="nofollow"&gt;IRV is an awful&lt;/a&gt; single winner election method.

I vastly prefer &lt;a href="http://minguo.info/election_methods/approval_voting" rel="nofollow"&gt;approval voting&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Instant runoff voting (IRV) is addressing the right problem.  But it is a very wrong solution.</p>
<p><a href="http://minguo.info/election_methods/irv" rel="nofollow">IRV is an awful</a> single winner election method.</p>
<p>I vastly prefer <a href="http://minguo.info/election_methods/approval_voting" rel="nofollow">approval voting</a>.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Maryland HB 1502 on Instant Runoff Voting by AllAboutVoting</title>
		<link>http://www.glassboxvoting.com/wordpress/2008/02/27/maryland-hb-1502-on-instant-runoff-voting/#comment-83</link>
		<dc:creator>AllAboutVoting</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Mar 2008 04:15:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.glassboxvoting.com/wordpress/2008/02/27/maryland-hb-1502-on-instant-runoff-voting/#comment-83</guid>
		<description>I'm not a fan of Instant Runoff Voting.  I have some comments explaining why on &lt;a href="http://www.glassboxvoting.com/wordpress/2008/03/12/36/" rel="nofollow"&gt;another IRV post of yours&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not a fan of Instant Runoff Voting.  I have some comments explaining why on <a href="http://www.glassboxvoting.com/wordpress/2008/03/12/36/" rel="nofollow">another IRV post of yours</a>.</p>
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